When Hard Goes Too Far
Speaker: Cameron Hanes
Duration: 17:53
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge6WZysI6JU
Caption track: ge6WZysI6JU.en.vtt
Note: Caption text may contain errors from the source publisher or automatic speech recognition.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] We need to have a chat about Truit. What
[00:00:02] is he built of? Uh he's Yeah, he's a
[00:00:05] machine right now.
[00:00:07] Um, you know,
[00:00:09] it's it's weird cuz I I I get credit for
[00:00:13] my kids, you know, and they're like,
[00:00:14] "Oh, you must have done such a good
[00:00:17] job." I didn't. I mean, I pushed those
[00:00:21] boys way too hard. I mean, I was just I
[00:00:24] didn't know what the hell I was doing. I
[00:00:26] was young. I was in my 20s, so I didn't
[00:00:29] know how to be a dad. My dad was never
[00:00:31] around. I hated my stepdad. So, I was ne
[00:00:34] I knew I definitely didn't want to be
[00:00:36] like him, but I didn't know what a dad
[00:00:39] was supposed to be. And I'm like, well,
[00:00:42] okay, I'm just going to prepare these
[00:00:44] kids. I know how life is. I know life
[00:00:47] will [inaudible] kick you in the nuts. So,
[00:00:50] they're going to be ready for anything.
[00:00:51] Life is competition. They're going to be
[00:00:53] ready to compete. So I had I pushed them
[00:00:57] really hard and it was not great all the
[00:01:00] time because So what what did you do?
[00:01:03] Um you know it was just always a battle.
[00:01:05] It's just
[00:01:08] like you know it's we were running every
[00:01:11] day. You guys got home from school.
[00:01:15] Okay, get your stuff on. We're going to
[00:01:16] go do Pisca. No kid wants to go run a
[00:01:19] mountain. And I'm like, "No, this is
[00:01:22] because the way I thought it thought it
[00:01:24] of of it was I had a terrible childhood,
[00:01:28] but it made me tough." So I'm like, "You
[00:01:31] guys have everything. You have
[00:01:33] everything I ever wanted. Your dad's
[00:01:35] around. Your mom is here. She loves you.
[00:01:38] You have every You have every shoe you
[00:01:40] want. Every basketball camp you want to
[00:01:43] go to, you go to." I said,
[00:01:45] "So, the way this is going, you're going
[00:01:48] to grow up to be a couple big [inaudible]
[00:01:50] We're going to make you tough." So, I
[00:01:52] would just make them do hard things. And
[00:01:54] and uh I made they both did half
[00:01:56] marathons when they were seven and 8
[00:01:58] years old. True. Just put up a picture.
[00:02:00] He looks like he's this tall. He was
[00:02:02] tiny at 8 years 8 years old, but he ran
[00:02:04] a 154 half like this tall, which is
[00:02:08] eight something minute miles. And
[00:02:11] um that all that to say that yeah I I
[00:02:15] had the kids do really hard things for
[00:02:18] many years to prepare them for what I
[00:02:20] said was life's challenges and uh it made
[00:02:24] it you know if I was it reminded me did
[00:02:27] you ever see the movie Tree of Life? No.
[00:02:30] So Brad Brad Brad Pitts in it and great
[00:02:33] movie but he was super hard dad there.
[00:02:35] When he would leave it was like [inaudible]
[00:02:37] playtime, right? mom, kids jumping on
[00:02:40] the beds every and then when dad dad
[00:02:42] would come home and be like, "Oh god."
[00:02:44] So I said, "This reminds me of me when I
[00:02:47] was when we go out of town, it's just
[00:02:48] playtime, come back, it's like, oh
[00:02:50] shit." So that's not great when you're
[00:02:53] the bad guy all the time. You know, dads
[00:02:55] are usually the disciplinary and that's
[00:02:57] whatever. But I was also like, you know,
[00:02:59] making them do these really hard things.
[00:03:01] So they see now and they see all the
[00:03:03] success, but it it wasn't great. and
[00:03:06] anybody from the outside in would look
[00:03:08] and say that what's wrong with that that
[00:03:10] dad is pushing those kids too hard. You
[00:03:13] know, it's like any basketball game, I'm
[00:03:15] just like a loose ball, you better be on
[00:03:18] that floor. And I said, I want to see
[00:03:20] floor burns on your knees. I want you
[00:03:22] diving on. I want you playing the harder
[00:03:26] than any kid out there. So, that's a
[00:03:27] hard that's a hard um thing to live up
[00:03:31] to. Kids just want to have fun. They
[00:03:33] want to play. They're not looking to
[00:03:35] compete every day, but I made them
[00:03:37] compete. So, it was a challenge. Now,
[00:03:40] you see what that results in, you know,
[00:03:44] and you know, Tanner, he was a ranger.
[00:03:47] He's freaking badass. It's probably
[00:03:50] tougher than Truit. And then Truit's,
[00:03:52] you know, doing these crazy things and
[00:03:53] getting all this attention. And yeah, I
[00:03:56] mean, it's great. I I'm I'm glad to see
[00:03:58] it, but um I didn't I wasn't perfect
[00:04:01] raising this. Do you regret it?
[00:04:03] Yeah, I regret [Music]
[00:04:07] um I regret I remember when Tanner went
[00:04:10] to the army. He was a deputy back home.
[00:04:14] Very proud of him. Such an important
[00:04:16] job. He, you know, a corrections
[00:04:18] officer, just worked at the jail, but
[00:04:20] still it's, you know, a good job. It's
[00:04:22] like paid paid the bills. I was proud of
[00:04:24] him. We need people who need men to do
[00:04:26] that. So, um, he said he was going to
[00:04:29] join the
[00:04:30] army and he wanted to be a ranger. And
[00:04:33] I'm just
[00:04:34] like, you know, you get deployed. And
[00:04:38] I'm thinking, what
[00:04:40] if, you know, he I think it was because
[00:04:43] I would tell them that average is
[00:04:45] failing. If you look around, you see the
[00:04:48] average person. That's not us. That's
[00:04:50] not what we want to be. So, we're not
[00:04:52] Yes, I know people need to work at gas
[00:04:54] stations and do things whatever. That's
[00:04:56] fine. nuts, but that's not what we're
[00:04:57] settled for. So, he he said he wanted to
[00:05:01] quit. He didn't want to be a deputy
[00:05:03] more. He wanted to be a ranger cuz he
[00:05:04] had more to offer this world. And I was
[00:05:06] thinking, was that me who [inaudible] up and
[00:05:10] and said this at being just having a
[00:05:12] regular job was somehow failing? And I
[00:05:15] just had so many regrets. And I was just
[00:05:17] like I told him he's getting ready to go
[00:05:19] to basic training. And I'm like I said
[00:05:22] Tanner I'm
[00:05:23] like there's nothing wrong with with
[00:05:26] having a regular job being a family man.
[00:05:29] And I said there's nothing I was wrong.
[00:05:32] I was wrong to say what I said raising
[00:05:36] you kids. And um cuz I was thinking
[00:05:39] about what if he got deployed and was
[00:05:43] killed. And it's just like because of
[00:05:46] [inaudible] I said trying to make my boys tough
[00:05:50] and this is a result. So yeah, I was like,
[00:05:57] yeah, I definitely have had regrets over
[00:06:00] how how hard I pushed them.
[00:06:06] I
[00:06:08] think it's such a delicate balance
[00:06:13] to give your kids the life that you
[00:06:17] never had and the life that you worked
[00:06:19] so hard to be able to afford them with.
[00:06:22] whilst also knowing where most of the
[00:06:26] important realizations that made you
[00:06:27] into the sort of person who could
[00:06:30] provide came about due to restriction
[00:06:33] and difficulty and and tough times and
[00:06:35] and toil uh and a little bit of maybe a
[00:06:40] bit of resentment and a a little bit of
[00:06:42] uh unfairness. Yeah. In childhood that
[00:06:46] galvanized you to sort of do something
[00:06:48] great with your life. every single I
[00:06:50] look dude every single parent that I
[00:06:52] know uh and even more be tell you what
[00:06:54] be [inaudible] grateful that you had your
[00:06:55] kids in your 20s because if you'd had
[00:06:57] them now imagine how much of a
[00:06:59] differential your lifestyle is uh
[00:07:02] materially in terms of resources in
[00:07:04] terms of uh status and and and notoriety
[00:07:06] and opportunity and all of this stuff
[00:07:08] you would be like floating out in space
[00:07:11] you know you would have no the total
[00:07:13] frame of reference would be out of the
[00:07:14] window um there's not a single dad that
[00:07:19] I know who has sort of crawled out from
[00:07:22] the place that they were as a kid and
[00:07:25] made something of
[00:07:26] themselves who doesn't have that exact
[00:07:28] concern about their children. I think it
[00:07:30] is one of the most common worries. Uh
[00:07:33] Ben Francis, he's the guy that founded
[00:07:35] Gym Shark. Uh Gym Shark's completely
[00:07:37] bootstrapped. He still owns 70% of it.
[00:07:39] Gym Shark's worth over it's nearly three
[00:07:41] billion dollar3 billion pound company.
[00:07:43] This guy's like worth like2 billion
[00:07:45] pounds, like3 billion, and he's 31. He's
[00:07:49] got twin he's got twin boys, but he grew
[00:07:51] up like as rough as they come in
[00:07:54] Birmingham with a granddad that made him
[00:07:55] go and work in like a clay mine or a a
[00:07:59] pottery barn or something like that.
[00:08:02] And I've asked him this question. I'm
[00:08:03] like, how do you intend on navigating
[00:08:05] this one? How do you intend on teaching
[00:08:08] your kids the lessons that you learned
[00:08:10] from a very working-class grandfather,
[00:08:11] their great-grandfather,
[00:08:14] whilst also not throwing away the entire
[00:08:17] reason for working as hard as you did,
[00:08:19] which was to be able to afford your
[00:08:20] [inaudible] family the life that you never
[00:08:22] had, right? So, you know, first off, I
[00:08:25] think you did the best that you could.
[00:08:27] So, you need to give yourself some grace
[00:08:28] with that. And
[00:08:32] look, if this was so if 50% was like the
[00:08:36] middle of the bell curve of how much
[00:08:38] toughness versus easiness you could give
[00:08:41] kids, I would guess that most kids and
[00:08:44] most parents are too far on the easy
[00:08:46] side. I think snowplow parenting,
[00:08:48] helicopter parenting, gentle parenting,
[00:08:50] whilst um noble in its intentions is
[00:08:54] usually kind of over patatterent matched
[00:08:57] and results in soft entitled adults,
[00:09:00] right? Uh narcissistic soft entitled
[00:09:02] adults when they grow up. Um given the
[00:09:06] choice between the two, sort of being
[00:09:08] pushed a little bit further on the other
[00:09:09] side uh is a very strange kind of
[00:09:14] gift. I I think what would be
[00:09:18] interesting would be to
[00:09:21] know how much of that is actually
[00:09:23] because of the way that you raised them
[00:09:24] and how much of that is just your genes.
[00:09:28] Um the more that I learn about
[00:09:30] behavioral genetics, heritability of
[00:09:32] different traits, so on and so
[00:09:35] forth like I this I this should be
[00:09:39] comforting. As far as I can
[00:09:42] see, there is no such thing as really
[00:09:44] getting parenting right. There is only
[00:09:46] getting it wrong. And getting it wrong,
[00:09:50] kids are pretty [inaudible] resilient. Like,
[00:09:52] they're really, really tough. And you
[00:09:56] see perfectly balanced adults that grew
[00:10:00] up in horrendous childhood environments.
[00:10:03] Mhm. Uh, and I think as long as there's
[00:10:07] no really extreme Well, maybe you would
[00:10:09] say some of the the climbs with the rock
[00:10:11] were slightly extreme. Um, my point is I
[00:10:16] get the sense that if they're made out
[00:10:18] of the same stuff that you're made out
[00:10:20] of, they didn't really have a choice
[00:10:23] whether you made them go up the mountain
[00:10:24] or not. I think that there is a lot more
[00:10:27] built into you. You know, you're talking
[00:10:29] about consistently running for four
[00:10:31] decades and thinking about
[00:10:34] framing that up against what that meant
[00:10:35] in your childhood and you know the sort
[00:10:38] of relentlessness that you approach like
[00:10:40] even the pod when you started that I
[00:10:42] think that was episode 3 2 3 4 something
[00:10:44] like that it's now like what 160 some
[00:10:47] [inaudible] uh like even with that that's
[00:10:50] that's not that's a level of work rate
[00:10:52] that most people don't hold up in just a
[00:10:55] minor little area then in the hunting
[00:10:58] and then in the lifting and then in the
[00:11:00] bow stuff and then in the running and
[00:11:01] then in the so you
[00:11:04] know maybe there is maybe it's
[00:11:08] contributed but what I would if I could
[00:11:11] sort of bet a couple of chips on the
[00:11:13] roulette wheel of a couple of other
[00:11:14] universes in which you'd approached your
[00:11:16] kids differently Mhm. I think they'd
[00:11:19] be probably 90% 80 or 90% of the way
[00:11:24] there just with less experience about
[00:11:26] how to deal with it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and
[00:11:28] one of the best things you can do for
[00:11:29] your kids, I think as a [inaudible] look at
[00:11:31] me, spouting nonsense as a nonfather.
[00:11:33] The internet loves when I do this. Um,
[00:11:36] one of the best things that you can do
[00:11:37] is set a good example. You know, you can
[00:11:39] read all of the books about healthy
[00:11:41] attachment and child education and
[00:11:44] socialization and all the rest of it,
[00:11:45] but they will learn more from the way
[00:11:47] that you and your wife show up for each
[00:11:49] other around the dinner table than every
[00:11:51] lesson that you try and force into them.
[00:11:54] Like, you can top down try and tell them
[00:11:55] how they're supposed to behave. this is
[00:11:56] how you're supposed to treat girls. You
[00:11:58] don't hit girls and you don't do this
[00:11:59] and you must hold the door and you got
[00:12:00] to be this way and be blah blah blah
[00:12:02] blah. It's like, all right, but then
[00:12:03] when you're around the dinner table,
[00:12:05] you're a prick. You look at your phone
[00:12:06] instead of looking at your wife or you
[00:12:08] ignore her or you don't laugh at her
[00:12:09] jokes or you guys don't relate well or
[00:12:12] they never see you be physically
[00:12:13] affectionate to each other or whatever
[00:12:15] it is. It's not for me to say that you
[00:12:16] need to like force a relationship, but
[00:12:18] yeah, the point is I think that kids
[00:12:20] learn by seeing a lot more than they get
[00:12:22] learned by being told. And that's what
[00:12:25] you're doing. Even if you hadn't made
[00:12:27] them go up the mountain, you were like,
[00:12:28] "I'm off to go up the mountain." They be
[00:12:29] like, "Dad's going up the mountain. Can
[00:12:30] I come up the mountain?" You know? So,
[00:12:33] yeah. It's uh and and I was thinking
[00:12:35] also too, it's not just like what you
[00:12:37] do, but when you have that mindset about
[00:12:41] life is competition. Um hard work is the
[00:12:44] is the the key, whatever. That's that is
[00:12:48] impacting how you talk and how you carry
[00:12:50] yourself because everybody says says the
[00:12:53] right thing. They they tell their kids
[00:12:54] what you're supposed to tell your kids.
[00:12:56] It's like as you said, no, you hold the
[00:12:58] door for women. You you know, be
[00:13:00] respectful. Everybody says the right
[00:13:02] stuff, but how you carry yourself and
[00:13:06] then how you how you talk. Not when
[00:13:08] you're delivering some ultimatum or some
[00:13:11] direction, but just how you what's your
[00:13:13] mindset. And that's when it's not
[00:13:17] controlled, when it's not you're not
[00:13:18] thinking about it.
[00:13:20] So my mindset was
[00:13:23] always let's do more, perform more, push
[00:13:26] harder. So I I guess to your point that
[00:13:29] even if I wasn't m they were seeing that
[00:13:31] of course it's
[00:13:33] um yeah it's you know you talked about
[00:13:37] true it you know originally but even for
[00:13:40] him it reminded your story sort of
[00:13:43] reminded me of his like people see him
[00:13:45] now and they're like I mean he's easy to
[00:13:48] he gets hate too cuz he's easy to hate
[00:13:50] definitely um he's got a lot going for
[00:13:54] him and that's that will build some
[00:13:57] resentment over with some guys. But for
[00:14:00] him, he lost for years. He He didn't
[00:14:04] miss a day lifting weights for
[00:14:07] like 14 years. Still hasn't. I started
[00:14:10] them lifting when they were 14, both him
[00:14:12] and Tanner. And since that time, he
[00:14:16] hasn't missed more than a day.
[00:14:19] So, it was loss after loss after loss.
[00:14:24] He's like tiny, not getting bit. He and
[00:14:26] he mentioned this. We did this we're
[00:14:28] doing this video on his pull-ups that
[00:14:29] you know he broke the world record and
[00:14:31] he's just like he goes I don't think he
[00:14:34] goes I didn't realize
[00:14:36] that Tanner was kicking my ass every day
[00:14:39] as his older brother anytime we'd
[00:14:42] compete me against him I would never let
[00:14:44] the kids win. It was always like it was
[00:14:47] always a battle always
[00:14:51] crying. I mean, kicking the basketball
[00:14:54] down the street because they're so mad.
[00:14:55] Go get it. Y
[00:14:58] Tanner, uh, I was throwing like football
[00:15:00] as hard as I could, making him catch it
[00:15:02] because he's a receiver. Drops it,
[00:15:04] punches the ground, breaks his hand. So,
[00:15:06] there's like all these losses
[00:15:09] essentially. So, Truit said, "I didn't
[00:15:12] know that." Yeah, I was getting beat by
[00:15:15] my older brother. I was getting beat by
[00:15:17] you every day. He goes, "I didn't
[00:15:18] realize Tanner was the biggest beast,
[00:15:21] one of the biggest beasts he's ever
[00:15:22] met." And he goes, "And I didn't know
[00:15:24] you were who you were. I thought," he
[00:15:27] said, "I just thought I was weak and a
[00:15:29] loser. I didn't know that I was going
[00:15:32] against these these people that were
[00:15:34] making me." So people see him now and
[00:15:37] I'm like if you could see him back when
[00:15:39] 14 years old and you know when he's in
[00:15:42] high school he get he was five foot like
[00:15:45] 90 lbs got cut from the basketball team
[00:15:48] even though he was really good and the
[00:15:50] most skilled cuz he was too small. They
[00:15:53] don't see all that. They see now and
[00:15:55] they're just like oh what is he on
[00:15:58] steroids? And it's just like, no, this
[00:16:00] is this is a kid who hasn't missed a day
[00:16:02] in the gym for 14 years and trains for
[00:16:06] hours every day and doesn't drink,
[00:16:09] doesn't do anything but get enough rest
[00:16:11] to perform every single day. This is
[00:16:14] what you get when you're that dedicated.
[00:16:17] But people, they want to ignore that
[00:16:19] part. You are probably not eating enough
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[00:17:37] drinkag1.com/modern wisdom. That's
[00:17:43] drinkagg.com/modern wisdom. Thank you
[00:17:45] very much for tuning in. Enjoyed that
[00:17:47] clip. The full episode is available
[00:17:50] right here. Come on.