How to Build Extreme Willpower
Speaker: David Goggins and Andrew Huberman
Duration: 13:14
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84dYijIpWjQ
Caption track: 84dYijIpWjQ.en.vtt
Note: Caption text may contain errors from the source publisher or automatic speech recognition.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:02] I'm going to share a little neuroscience tidbit.
[00:00:04] Love it.
[00:00:04] But I think it's one that you'll appreciate.
[00:00:07] Most people don't know this,
[00:00:09] but there's a brain structure
[00:00:11] called the anterior midcingulate cortex,
[00:00:13] as we pointed out before, that's a noun, it's a name,
[00:00:15] it doesn't mean anything.
[00:00:16] Right. We could call it
[00:00:17] the cookie monster.
[00:00:18] Right.
[00:00:20] But what's interesting about this brain area
[00:00:21] is there's now a lot of data,
[00:00:24] in humans, not some mouse study,
[00:00:27] showing that when people do something they don't want to do,
[00:00:31] like add three hours of exercise per day or per week,
[00:00:36] or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight
[00:00:39] resist eating something.
[00:00:40] Right.
[00:00:42] When people do anything that they,
[00:00:43] and this is the important part,
[00:00:44] that they don't want to do,
[00:00:46] it's not about adding more work,
[00:00:47] it's about adding more work that you don't want to do.
[00:00:50] Yes.
[00:00:51] This brain area gets bigger.
[00:00:52] Yep.
[00:00:53] Now here's what's especially interesting
[00:00:54] about this brain area to me, and by the way,
[00:00:56] I'm only learning this recently
[00:00:58] because it's new data, but there's a lot of it.
[00:01:01] The anterior midcingulate cortex
[00:01:04] is smaller in obese people,
[00:01:08] it gets bigger when they diet.
[00:01:10] It's larger in athletes,
[00:01:13] it's especially large or grows larger
[00:01:16] in people that see themselves
[00:01:19] as challenged and overcome some challenge.
[00:01:21] Right.
[00:01:23] And in people that live a very long time,
[00:01:28] this area keeps its size.
[00:01:31] In many ways, scientists are starting to think
[00:01:33] of the anterior midcingulate cortex
[00:01:35] not just as one of the seats of willpower.
[00:01:38] Right.
[00:01:39] But perhaps actually the seat of the will to live.
[00:01:43] See, now we're talking.
[00:01:45] And when I learned about the anterior midcingulate cortex,
[00:01:47] I was like almost out of my seat.
[00:01:49] And I've been in the neuroscience game since I was 20.
[00:01:51] Now we're talking. And we're the same age.
[00:01:52] And I was so pumped
[00:01:53] 'cause I've heard of the amygdala fear, prefrontal cortex,
[00:01:56] it's planning and action.
[00:01:57] I could tell you every brain area and every,
[00:01:59] I teach neuroanatomy to medical students.
[00:02:01] But when I started seeing the data
[00:02:03] on the anterior midcingulate cortex,
[00:02:06] I was like, whoa, this is interesting.
[00:02:10] Yep.
[00:02:11] And all the data points to the fact
[00:02:13] that we can build this area up.
[00:02:15] Yep.
[00:02:16] But that, as quickly as we build it up,
[00:02:18] if we don't continue to invest in things
[00:02:20] that are hard for us that we don't want to do,
[00:02:23] that's the part that feels so Goggin-esque.
[00:02:26] Yes, sir. To me,
[00:02:27] that we don't want to do,
[00:02:28] like if you love the ice bath,
[00:02:30] "Yeah, I love the ice bath,"
[00:02:31] and you go from one minute to 10 minutes, guess what?
[00:02:34] Your anterior midcingulate cortex did not grow.
[00:02:36] None.
[00:02:36] But if you hate the cold water,
[00:02:39] if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water
[00:02:42] and put your head under.
[00:02:43] Yep.
[00:02:45] Then your anterior mid, and survive,
[00:02:47] then the anterior midcingulate cortex gets bigger.
[00:02:49] But if you don't do it the next day,
[00:02:51] or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it
[00:02:53] because, hey, hey, I did it yesterday,
[00:02:55] woo-hoo, happy me, Merry Christmas,
[00:02:57] as you would say. That's right,
[00:02:58] Merry Christmas.
[00:02:59] Guess what?
[00:03:00] The anterior midcingulate cortex shrinks again.
[00:03:02] DAVID: Yep.
[00:03:03] To me, this is one of the most important discoveries
[00:03:05] that neuroscience has ever made
[00:03:08] because it's that I don't want to do something
[00:03:11] but do it anyway.
[00:03:12] That's right.
[00:03:13] That grows this area,
[00:03:14] and it's almost like I have a friend,
[00:03:15] he's been sober 30 years from alcohol,
[00:03:18] and he always says, you know,
[00:03:19] the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure,
[00:03:23] the problem is it only works one day at a time.
[00:03:25] Yep.
[00:03:26] And so, you have to renew it every day.
[00:03:27] That's right.
[00:03:28] So the anterior midcingulate cortex to me,
[00:03:30] when I learned about it, two things went off in my head,
[00:03:33] whoa, this is super interesting,
[00:03:34] and two, I got to tell David Goggins about this.
[00:03:36] And I waited until now.
[00:03:37] I'm glad. To tell you
[00:03:38] because I felt like, well, for obvious reasons,
[00:03:42] I wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell you here.
[00:03:44] Well, I love that
[00:03:45] because that's how I've lived my entire life,
[00:03:48] I didn't know anything about that.
[00:03:50] But people go, "Man, you have such a strong will."
[00:03:54] It's something that you build, like I never forgot,
[00:03:56] I was on a podcast one time, and this dude goes,
[00:03:59] "You were blessed with a strong mind."
[00:04:03] Like, the hell you talking about
[00:04:07] I was blessed with a strong mind?
[00:04:10] That's something that you have to develop.
[00:04:13] You develop that over years, decades of suffering
[00:04:18] and going back into the suffer.
[00:04:21] That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training,
[00:04:28] I talk about very openly all the time,
[00:04:32] a lot of guys don't want to go back into that water,
[00:04:35] don't want to go back into the hard stuff.
[00:04:38] Anything hard, anything hard in life,
[00:04:41] once you get through it, it's like you become a POW.
[00:04:45] Like, how many POWs you know want to go back to POW camp?
[00:04:48] None.
[00:04:49] When something sucks so bad in life, this is on this,
[00:04:53] that we're talking about now, very few people want to go back.
[00:04:58] They're happy they graduated.
[00:05:02] I realized I'm the same way, I don't want to go back.
[00:05:07] I have to go back, I must go back.
[00:05:11] Because that is exactly where
[00:05:13] all the knowledge of my life exists was back there
[00:05:17] and what exactly what you're talking about.
[00:05:19] Well, I didn't know anything about this,
[00:05:21] but how I grew a will was constantly doing these things,
[00:05:26] so now, it's just life.
[00:05:30] I wake up, while it still sucks, it's just life.
[00:05:33] You don't sit back and like, oh my God,
[00:05:35] like I have days I don't want to do it,
[00:05:36] but I know I'm going to do it.
[00:05:39] I know from years of just doing it, so that's beautiful.
[00:05:44] And this is why I came on here with you today,
[00:05:46] and I'm glad that you're talking about this
[00:05:48] because human beings need to hear this,
[00:05:51] they need to stop hearing these hacks on this and that,
[00:05:56] there's no fucking hack, bro,
[00:05:58] there's no fucking hack,
[00:05:59] yeah, you may this and that and saunas and this,
[00:06:03] all this shit that they, yeah, it's great.
[00:06:06] There is no fucking life hack.
[00:06:09] To grow that thing, how do you grow it?
[00:06:12] Do it, and do it, and do it and do it.
[00:06:16] That's the hack, the hack is going to fucking suck.
[00:06:19] And that's when I realized, that's when I realized.
[00:06:22] That's why I wanted to come on here today,
[00:06:24] I didn't want to come on here
[00:06:25] and talk about no fucking passion and purpose
[00:06:28] and how to get the fuck out of bed
[00:06:30] and how to hit a fucking alarm clock
[00:06:31] and all this catchphrase bullshit,
[00:06:35] 'cause that wasn't how I lived, it wasn't how I lived.
[00:06:38] I lived, I woke up like every human being does
[00:06:41] and goes, "Fuck, man, I'm a fucking piece of shit today.
[00:06:44] How the hell is this going to work out for me?"
[00:06:46] And you fight that and you fight that,
[00:06:49] you don't override it, there's no override button.
[00:06:52] It's the conversation in your head.
[00:06:55] So how do you do that?
[00:06:57] We don't have enough of these conversations
[00:06:59] about the real conversation that every human being is having
[00:07:03] and they have no idea how to get out of it, but they do.
[00:07:07] It's that shit right there, man, you got to build your will.
[00:07:11] How do you build your will? Exactly what you said, man.
[00:07:14] Exactly what you said.
[00:07:16] Well, I feel like knowing the name of something,
[00:07:19] anterior midcingulate cortex
[00:07:20] doesn't fundamentally change us.
[00:07:21] But one thing I like about biology is that, willpower,
[00:07:27] if somebody feels they don't have it,
[00:07:29] feels like this thing that other people have.
[00:07:31] But everybody, unless they're brain damaged,
[00:07:34] like a hole through their head
[00:07:36] has two anterior midcingulate cortex,
[00:07:39] one on each side of their brain.
[00:07:41] Everyone has one, they have two.
[00:07:43] So I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal,
[00:07:48] and the portal, again, I'm going to say it 10 times
[00:07:52] and forgive me, is I think people go,
[00:07:53] "Oh, I do hard things, I do sets to failure,
[00:07:56] and then I do forced reps."
[00:07:57] I love training with weights, I love doing sets to failure,
[00:08:00] I even like forced reps, but guess what?
[00:08:02] I like forced reps, so I'll tell you,
[00:08:04] they don't build my anterior midcingulate cortex.
[00:08:07] Right.
[00:08:08] Because I like to do it.
[00:08:08] That's right.
[00:08:09] Anything you like to do
[00:08:11] is not going to enhance this aspect of willpower.
[00:08:13] And it seems so obvious once you hear it,
[00:08:15] you kind of go, "Oh yeah, of course."
[00:08:17] But I think you really close that loop for people
[00:08:22] when you share what you're sharing today
[00:08:26] and what you've shared elsewhere before as well,
[00:08:27] when you're trying to explain
[00:08:28] the friction is the critical ingredient.
[00:08:30] Right.
[00:08:31] And I think people think,
[00:08:32] oh, if it's effort, well, then, I'm getting better,
[00:08:34] that's part of it, necessary, but not sufficient,
[00:08:37] as we say in science.
[00:08:38] But the suck part, the being haunted, the stick,
[00:08:44] they're really unpleasant terms.
[00:08:46] Very.
[00:08:47] These are probably the most unpleasant terms
[00:08:48] we've ever used on this podcast.
[00:08:50] Very.
[00:08:51] Those are the levers, those are the gears.
[00:08:55] And without those, this thing that you're talking about,
[00:08:58] David Goggins as a verb.
[00:09:00] Right.
[00:09:01] You know, I sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke.
[00:09:04] DAVID: Right.
[00:09:04] Goggins is a name and it's a verb.
[00:09:08] People go, "I'm going to Goggins that."
[00:09:10] Right. Right?
[00:09:10] But that's, I think, again, I'm not a psychologist,
[00:09:14] but I think that's what you're talking about.
[00:09:15] The stick, the friction, being haunted,
[00:09:19] it's the suck part that grows
[00:09:21] this anterior midcingulate cortex.
[00:09:23] So now you know why there's so many people
[00:09:26] that fail in this world to figure out their purpose,
[00:09:32] their purpose in life, where do I go?
[00:09:34] Because to grow that,
[00:09:38] while you may not look like me, how my daily life looks.
[00:09:43] It don't look fun,
[00:09:46] it don't look fun.
[00:09:48] So it's a choice that people have to make in life.
[00:09:53] But what's so funny about it is even the richest of rich,
[00:09:56] who have everything, they always ask me this question,
[00:09:59] "I feel like I'm missing something."
[00:10:03] I don't feel like I'm missing shit.
[00:10:06] I don't have what you all have,
[00:10:09] but you'll never in my life
[00:10:11] hear me tell you I'm missing something.
[00:10:14] And everybody is, they're missing this feeling.
[00:10:19] I found it, a long time ago,
[00:10:22] and I found it right there in that willpower thing.
[00:10:25] When you're nothing, nothing,
[00:10:28] and change yourself into something like me,
[00:10:33] you call it happiness, peace,
[00:10:36] whatever the fuck you want to call it,
[00:10:40] people are missing exactly what went on with David Goggins.
[00:10:44] "Why don't you smile?"
[00:10:45] I do, I do.
[00:10:47] But I figured something out,
[00:10:49] that's why you'll never hear me say,
[00:10:52] "I'm missing something."
[00:10:53] I found it years ago.
[00:10:55] You find it in the suck, you find it in the suck,
[00:11:00] and you find it repeatedly in the suck,
[00:11:02] to the point where you know exactly who you are.
[00:11:05] Most people are missing something
[00:11:06] because they don't know who they are,
[00:11:10] they never examine themselves,
[00:11:12] they've never done this experiment on themselves.
[00:11:16] The lab rat, we're all lab rats.
[00:11:18] But you are also the scientist.
[00:11:21] You create your own self.
[00:11:24] Most people are missing something
[00:11:25] 'cause there's so much trapped in there.
[00:11:29] I don't even want to say potential,
[00:11:30] I think that word's used out too much too.
[00:11:32] There's so much in you that God
[00:11:34] or whoever the hell you believe in, or if you're a atheist,
[00:11:37] in you, that you have not unlocked,
[00:11:40] that you walk around with this gorgeous wife
[00:11:42] or great husband and all this money, you're like,
[00:11:45] "God, I feel like I'm missing something."
[00:11:47] Yeah, because it's about 75% of you
[00:11:51] is still fucking in there, still chained up,
[00:11:55] because you just didn't want to find your willpower,
[00:11:58] didn't want to find your soul, your will, your heart,
[00:12:00] your determination, your guts, your courage,
[00:12:03] and what that looks like, it looks scary,
[00:12:05] like your little scary lab I went in, scary.
[00:12:09] To wake up every day and say,
[00:12:10] "I'm stupid, but I want to figure out a way to be smarter,"
[00:12:14] versus saying, "Man, I just can't do that."
[00:12:16] So you limit this box,
[00:12:19] so your box becomes so small of things you can do.
[00:12:22] My box wasn't even a box,
[00:12:25] it was a fucking little like little pinhole.
[00:12:28] And then, through examining myself,
[00:12:31] getting some willpower, some courage,
[00:12:34] it became bigger than this table.
[00:12:35] But that's what we all do,
[00:12:36] that's why I wanted to come here today
[00:12:37] and talk to you about real shit.
[00:12:39] Not no fucking like hacks, there's no hacks, bro.
[00:12:43] It's you against you, you against you.
[00:12:46] And if you misunderstand that,
[00:12:49] you have a real problem, real problem.
[00:12:52] I can understand you misunderstand me
[00:12:53] running down the street, shirt off,
[00:12:55] "Fuck this, yeah, yeah," I can get it, I get it.
[00:12:58] If you misunderstand
[00:12:59] what I'm saying right now today, the problem is you,
[00:13:04] and you don't want to fix it.
[00:13:06] [MUSIC PLAYING]